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"justflow1983":sidbidlu wrote: Messrs McGuire is set up horribly though.[/quote:sidbidlu]No disagreement there.

"justflow1983":sidbidlu wrote: The way the space works isn't set up for someone who wants to have some nice beers and enjoy them.[/quote:sidbidlu]That's down to the overheads of setting the place up: in 1998 you built 'em big and filled 'em to the rafters. Things haven't changed that much, though you're less likely to get a bank loan to do it these days.

"justflow1983":sidbidlu wrote: The "can't do, won't do, nobody will do" response to everything in this country always gets to me.[/quote:sidbidlu]Well, I hope I'm showing where this attitude comes from, as regards beer and pubs anyway.

"justflow1983":sidbidlu wrote: If you know your market and target it effectively, success in anything is pretty guaranteed.[/quote:sidbidlu]The market in Ireland is not big enough to support the ideal specialist beer pub. Not yet, at any rate.

Part of ICB's mission is to change that. Can do, will do <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:hlmtget8 wrote: No, the Porterhouse started off by buying a pub, selling Guinness and Heineken, and raising capital to build a brewery. The original Porterhouse still depends on macro beer otherwise it wouldn't sell them.[/quote:hlmtget8]

I don't think anyone is talking about opening that sort of place in a town like Bray, which is where the Macro featuring Porterhouse is.

My point was about the Porterhouse Templebar being macro free from it's opening. It's the same in Central and Glasnevin. Surely another pub following that model could would be an idea with legs.

Do you think the nature of the license trade in Ireland precludes a pub from only stocking micros and imports?

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:2p3z8g2o wrote: My point was about the Porterhouse Templebar being macro free from it's opening. It's the same in Central and Glasnevin. Surely another pub following that model could would be an idea with legs.[/quote:2p3z8g2o]I think the important thing about that model -- and the Bull & Castle, and Sin É, and Messrs Maguire -- is that they're part of a chain. They have enough of a capital cushion and established credit line to survive the hard early days. The Porterhouse Temple Bar will also have received a sizable advantage from being in Temple Bar at the early stages of the redevelopment (praise be to Charlie). These circumstances are hard to reproduce, especially for an independent licence holder.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:2p3z8g2o wrote: Do you think the nature of the license trade in Ireland precludes a pub from only stocking micros and imports?[/quote:2p3z8g2o]No. But the cost of doing it makes it very hard. Tim Martin decided it wasn't going to work for him, and given his supermarket-like buying power that should give anyone pause.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:3hdpba55 wrote:

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:3hdpba55 wrote: Messrs McGuire is set up horribly though.[/quote:3hdpba55]No disagreement there.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:3hdpba55 wrote: The way the space works isn't set up for someone who wants to have some nice beers and enjoy them.[/quote:3hdpba55]That's down to the overheads of setting the place up: in 1998 you built 'em big and filled 'em to the rafters. Things haven't changed that much, though you're less likely to get a bank loan to do it these days.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:3hdpba55 wrote: The "can't do, won't do, nobody will do" response to everything in this country always gets to me.[/quote:3hdpba55]Well, I hope I'm showing where this attitude comes from, as regards beer and pubs anyway.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:3hdpba55 wrote: If you know your market and target it effectively, success in anything is pretty guaranteed.[/quote:3hdpba55]The market in Ireland is not big enough to support the ideal specialist beer pub. Not yet, at any rate.

Part of ICB's mission is to change that. Can do, will do <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->[/quote:3hdpba55]

I don't buy any of that. Go into Anseo on Camden Street, which is always packed. Its small, has a good vibe, and sells a good mix of beers all the time. Also, the Bernard Shaw may not have a great selection but is a small place that is jammed most of the time and the regulars there would prob be willing to try new beers. Even Solas has been quietly adding taps, although they don't seem to put much interesting into them.

Its partly about presentation, and partly about what is supplied. I don't suggest that there should be a specialist "beer snob" bar, but I don't think expanded beer selections are going to hurt sales. My generation (mid 20s) is full of people whinging about lack of beer selection, but it can't presented to them as something to put on a pedestal. It has to be integrated into the right atmosphere and reach the people who would be willing to try it.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: Go into Anseo on Camden Street, which is always packed.[/quote:2cjz7q36]Packed and smelly, IIRC. So what were people drinking? All Hooker? Betcha it wasn't.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: the regulars there would prob be willing to try new beers.[/quote:2cjz7q36]And the Diageo, Heineken and C&C reps have prob been telling the management that their beers are what the clients want. And can prob reduce the wholesale price if the management get funny ideas about independent breweries and fancy imports.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: Even Solas has been quietly adding taps, although they don't seem to put much interesting into them.[/quote:2cjz7q36]I don't know what game Solas is playing, but I rarely see people drinking the interesting beers. Likewise with O'Neill's.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: I don't think expanded beer selections are going to hurt sales.[/quote:2cjz7q36]Can't argue with that. But I thought you were talking about [i:2cjz7q36]reducing[/i:2cjz7q36] the selection, ie turfing out the macrocrap.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: My generation (mid 20s) is full of people whinging about lack of beer selection[/quote:2cjz7q36]and when they whinge [i:2cjz7q36]into their bottles of Corona[/i:2cjz7q36] they're part of the problem we have. The good beer is there: too many of the people who want better choice won't drink it.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: It has to be integrated into the right atmosphere and reach the people who would be willing to try it.[/quote:2cjz7q36]Heineken and Diageo are great at that sort of thing. Because they can afford the promotional teams and product to go round doing it, in a way that the microbreweries and specialist importers can't. It all comes down to hard cash at the end. The big boys have it; the small boys don't.

&amp;quot;justflow1983&amp;quot;:2cjz7q36 wrote: They survive as high quality, successful micro only bars[/quote:2cjz7q36]That doesn't hold up with the amount of Kopparberg, Coors Light and Erdinger I see them sell in all their branches. Used to be that asking for Heineken in the Porterhouse got you pointed to a house lager. Now it gets you a Heineken.